Q on masking partial cures for 2nd coats/other colors

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Motoguy
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Q on masking partial cures for 2nd coats/other colors

Post by Motoguy » Sat May 27, 2017 12:16 am

I'm doing a custom multi-layer panel for a customer. The backing plate is a Ukrainian flag. On top of that are a couple of layers for lettering. The flag looks like this:

Image

I'm using Prismatic's Goldtastic for the gold color, and the Blueberry Illusion for the blue. The Illusion series specifically states it is to be heated to flow out +2 minutes, then removed, cooled, and clear applied. It states the clear has to cure together with the Illusion base for proper coloring.

"SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS
For optimal results the base coat should be applied at a thickness of 2.0-3.0 mils. Optimal flash time, 2 mins. after gel out. Top coat should be applied after the part has cooled. Please note, color will not be correct until the top coat has been applied.The base coat must cure with the top coat to achieve the proper color. Less than 100% top coat coverage with yield inconsistent results in color. Illusion base coat is not tribo compatible.

FLASH TIME PRIOR TO TOP COAT
2 min.after powder flows to a gloss@ 400°F

CURE TIME & TEMP
10 min. @ 400°F"

That being said...

I masked and shot the Goldtastic. Let the powder get past flow out, then pulled. Removed masking, everything looked great. Applied masking tape (and paper, which I was using for my bulk cover) to the gold, shot the Blueberry. Put in oven until flow out +2 minutes. Everything looked good. Started to remove masking from on top of the Goldtastic, when everything went to hell. The paper was sticking to the Goldtastic, tearing and staying stuck in places. The masking tape (blue painters tape) left a horrible texture/blemish (possibly adhesive, couldn't really tell) on the gold when it was pulled as well. It was pretty much all crap at that point, so I just pulled everything and stuck it in the blaster. Being such a short cure, I was able to blast all the powder off.

Before attempting this again, I wanted to try to educate myself. A bit of searching yielded this bit of info:

"Cure solids to partial cure between colors. On the second coat pull the part at flow out, and remove the masking, then back in for full cure temp and time for he powder with the longest, hottest parameters.

the fun part.... Any metallic would be best shot and fully cured as a base before any candy or masked second coating. The masking adhesives will discolor the metallic base if it isn't completely cured before applying the masking tape or decal. Some folks actually get away with partial curing a chrome base powder and laying down a candy then full curing.

The hard part..... All multi coating jobs take careful planning, to avoid mismatched chemistries and undesired results, like darkening a lighter coat, while curing a long cure powder that requires higher temps. So if it requires a full cure to avoid damage, the cure parameters need to be worked out prior to the start of the project. This can be done by shooting test panels and by posting an inquiry concerning the powders you intend to use, and all the details of he project to do them on..... It's not that hard..... Just takes some practice."

Based on this, my mistake was NOT fully curing the Goldtastic prior to masking for the Blueberry. Ok, easy enough to fix. However, some of the items I want to make will use both Illusion Cherry, and Illusion Blueberry. I'll have to mask, shoot one, heat, pull mask, shoot the other, heat, pull mask, then shoot clear and let them cure. Seems straightforward, except that the Illusions explicitly state that they have to cure with the clear (Clear Vision in this case).

So, how would I successfully mask the Illusion series? The Prismatic instructions specifically state partial cure so they can cure with the clear. The info above states metallics need to be fully cured before masking.

I'm totally green here, so I realize this is likely a basic question. However, I won't learn unless I ask. Thanks.

teamdooracer
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Re: Q on masking partial cures for 2nd coats/other colors

Post by teamdooracer » Sat May 27, 2017 8:46 am

Just cure the illusion that will be masked longer. Cure to 75%.

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SCOTTRODS
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Re: Q on masking partial cures for 2nd coats/other colors

Post by SCOTTRODS » Sat May 27, 2017 12:18 pm

Agreed... as long as Color Does NOT Have To be EXACTLY correct... you can even fully cure the base of an illusion or metallic and it will work... if this is decorative it will last forever anyway... if it's an exterior sign... all bets are off. ANY powder can be used indoors, and some are optimal stuff, but not just anything will work outdoors.

Full cure of most illusions or Dormant colors doesn't eliminate their effectiveness... It may affect their long term durability though...

I recently watched a quick video from Prismatic, on their Super Chrome powder... They even showed you MUST cure fully on the base, to get the best reflective chrome results under anything top coated over it. So I also would bow to their directions in any case for advice...

In addition to all that... you need to buy some high temp tape to mask powder over powder and not do as much damage and have so much issue with the tape... Blue Painter's tape is OK for very short (just until flow at most) masking. I've had the stuff go to hell in a hand basket before... and completely quit using it from that point... too much frustration involved.

I'm curious... does your line between colors have to be perfect? or can there be a gap or hard line between? so as maybe the top plate covers the line??? Hard to give advice for best case unless we have a better picture... Sometimes others see another way around when they can view the puzzle.
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Motoguy
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Re: Q on masking partial cures for 2nd coats/other colors

Post by Motoguy » Sat May 27, 2017 4:05 pm

This is what the final project will look like. Blue/Gold flag as backer. Text will be Super Chrome on a black backer plate.
pyrchitko capture.JPG
pyrchitko capture.JPG (31.5 KiB) Viewed 6933 times

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SCOTTRODS
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Re: Q on masking partial cures for 2nd coats/other colors

Post by SCOTTRODS » Sat May 27, 2017 11:02 pm

Yep... Hard line can't be avoided... Is it indoor/outdoor? placement?

Indoor, I'd do whatever it takes to get the finished appearance right... Outdoors... Might take a different approach. But masking tape is essential. Gotta have the right stuff. I order from Eastwood as I like their blue high temp tape best... for Flexibility...however, I'd probably use the orange high temp tape on a flat panel like that, for better straighter masking purposes... but I'd still avoid the blue painter's tape.
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Motoguy
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Re: Q on masking partial cures for 2nd coats/other colors

Post by Motoguy » Sat May 27, 2017 11:07 pm

Indoor wall hanger. This was my first attempt at masking. I have some of the green/blue high temp masking tape, but only in 1/2" width. I'd read of people having good results with the blue painter's tape, so I thought I'd give it a shot. Looks like it's NOT the way I want to go! What's the best stuff to use in conjunction with the tape? Seeing how the paper stuck to the powder, I'm wondering what else I should be using.

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Re: Q on masking partial cures for 2nd coats/other colors

Post by SCOTTRODS » Sun May 28, 2017 11:02 am

Motoguy wrote:Indoor wall hanger. This was my first attempt at masking. I have some of the green/blue high temp masking tape, but only in 1/2" width. I'd read of people having good results with the blue painter's tape, so I thought I'd give it a shot. Looks like it's NOT the way I want to go! What's the best stuff to use in conjunction with the tape? Seeing how the paper stuck to the powder, I'm wondering what else I should be using.
I've seen a lot of folks use Aluminum foil... That'd be my first direction, with the tape being my hard line and lay down maybe a second layer/row to give a wider starting point, then put some Foil down and tape it in place. Foil tears easily so be very careful with the masked plate so you don't have to go back and remask... or worse,... strip and start over again.
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Alexd006
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Re: Q on masking partial cures for 2nd coats/other colors

Post by Alexd006 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:44 am

Motoguy wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 11:07 pm
Indoor wall hanger. This was my first attempt at masking. I have some of the green/blue high temp masking tape, but only in 1/2" width. I'd read of people having good taxi cdg results with the blue painter's tape, so I thought I'd give it a shot. Looks like it's NOT the way I want to go! What's the best stuff to use in conjunction with the tape? Seeing how the paper stuck to the powder, I'm wondering what else I should be using.
The metal was sanded to a brushed finish and cleaned before coating.

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