Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

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duke46
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by duke46 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:51 pm

toasted wrote:You sir are the man thank you :D :D
i will purchase the 1600 and obtain the valve i have orderd a pid that comes with the 40a ssr and a k therm coupler i think its a k
as soon as i can sort the heat source the build is on
i usualy wet spray my frames with 2 pack black but the place i was using has become un availible so was using the local p,c but im not impressed looks like he has rushed it through with some garden gates i asked for clear to but it dont look like he has applied :(
So its time to have ago my self and i think i have found the best place for advice and to learn :D
You do not need an SSR or a relay for gods sake. The PID will operate the heater on it own. Cancel on the SSR and if your ordered a SSR only PID then cancel it also.

You want a PID that will operate a relay.
Last edited by duke46 on Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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duke46
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by duke46 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:47 pm

I did find the post on using the added gas valve back in 2009. Here is really all he did and was what I told you.

"I got my valve today and got it installed. I took out the push button valve and put the solenoid in it's place. I spliced the wires into the 110v coming into the heater. I also got the control box all mounted and the pid and switches hooked up. The right switch is for the light and the left one is for the heater."

He did a nice oven build and it was like 4x4x8 and that 85,000 did the job for him but how well it did in the winter who knows.

Here is all the info for his build and on page 2 it shows the picture of it just like I posted here.

https://www.powdercoatingforum.net/foru ... oven-build" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You need to add off/on switches one for the drop down cord from the PID so you can cut the heater off when you go to open the door and then back on when you close it.

If you want a light inside your oven then wire it through a switch and plug it into a separate plug or maybe wire it in on the feed for the PID.
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toasted
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by toasted » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:27 pm

I bought the pid,ssr and therm as a kit sim to this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111904407174? ... EBIDX%3AIT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; its what my freind had fitted to his spray booth that i was using to spray my frames he recomended it hope it is correct :oops:
i have orderd the clarke devil 1600 and i am currently looking for a valve there are loads on there i am 240v so will find one to match my supply
if the pid is not correct i will order a new one :roll:

toasted
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by toasted » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:44 pm

just checked the inkbird website and it states it has an internal relay or can be used with ssr hopefully its correct and im ok i payed a bit more than that as well :evil:
my friend had it hooked up to an elec heater but unsure if he used the ssr
Im not ordering anything else till i check with you duke lol
Thanks for your advice and time when i start to build the oven i will document and take pictures and also give credit were its due :)

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duke46
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by duke46 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:15 pm

toasted wrote:just checked the inkbird website and it states it has an internal relay or can be used with ssr hopefully its correct and im ok i payed a bit more than that as well :evil:
my friend had it hooked up to an elec heater but unsure if he used the ssr
Im not ordering anything else till i check with you duke lol
Thanks for your advice and time when i start to build the oven i will document and take pictures and also give credit were its due :)
As long as it will power a relay then good.

I am getting real tired of guys that do not know crap ordering stuff that will not work and even worse not knowing how to even operate the damn things. Hope you friend know how to set it up because I can't help unless I see how it connects to operate and to program the dag thing.

Best of luck guy.
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toasted
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by toasted » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:16 pm

its the rh not the vh so will power the relay i have downloaded the manual and having a good read the wiring dia is pretty straight forward the prog looks a little more involved
my friend had someone else set it up and when i used it was just plug and play lol
i will make sure i have a good idea before i attempt to power the unit up
its a steep learning curve but aint everything when you first start :D :D

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duke46
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by duke46 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:56 am

Most but not all PID's that are made for use with an SSR only put out max 32 vdc but ones that are for use with a relay or that can do both will put out AC voltage. Not ever having to deal with the voltage like you have the only thing I know is some guys would have to use converters on stuff that could not be bought for use with their type voltage.

The little good for nothing K type TC that comes with the kit you bought is only good for very small ovens and you need one that is at least 3 to 6" long. Where to mount them is sort of a guessing game. 1 to 2 feet from the top and mid way is kind of normal and then adjust from there. Some PID but not all you can adjust + or - their offset so they will read more correct as for as where they are placed. Just make sure the TC mounted a few inches off the side of the oven or brought in straight from the back like you would see on a normal electric oven. Keep in mind that if any thing metal is placed real close to them they will not read as they should because the metal close will absorb the heat of your oven and will be reading lower than your oven until it gets to the same temp. I have had that happen a lot in my smaller 30" ones.

The link I posted on the guys oven build where he showed a 4" duct out the rear bottom seems to be what is done now and works real well. You can also place it on the side. But I bet he sent the vent out the wall or through the roof ASAP. For one there is a lot of heat that will come out of it and next is the smell of the propane and can be very dangerous.

When you go to connect your heater to your oven you need to buy the duct that will fit over the inter heat chamber and not one that will fit over the outside shell of it. You will have to remove the grate to do that. The next thing you will need is a filter box added on the input of the heater. It can cover the outer shell. If you can find a picture of what I did then make yours the same way. I used 5 1x12" filters. There is no heat at the rear and if you look close All I did was use a good grade of tape to hold them together and mount to the plate they are setting on. This keeps any thing from getting into the burner and getting on your parts. Just make it easy to take on and off so you can vacuum it or blow from the inside out to keep it clean. Mine look black because of all the black powder I use but once you take it off and go to the light you can see they are not clogged up but only discolored.

With your friend being able to operate a heater of a PID like you bought then he should know how to wire yours. But all you really need is an ext cord to drop down out of your control box so your heater will plug into it and you are ready. If your new PID will do what you say and operate a relay then all you do is bring in your voltage source and then the ext cord would wire to the pins that it calls for (don't forget to add a switch there so you can cut just the heater off).

If by chance you are not correct and your PID will only operate an SSR then first of all you would need a heat sink to mount it so it will keep cool. If you do have to use the SSR then you will need to bring your power into your PID and then also feed over to the SSR and then your heater would wire to the output of it as shown in the drawing.

If you will send me the link for the manual on your PID then I would know for sure what it can do.

Do make sure you use the correct studs for your door and the front frame of your oven. A lot of guys will try to use the light weight studs and if I didn't catch it soon enough then in time their door would warp and could fall off. The only way to fix that would be to find a sheet metal shop to cut and bend some heavy gauge metal to use for reinforcement. Some guys screw or bolt their doors on but welding then hinges on is the best way and you will need at least 3 to 4 commercial ones and not the thin type. The proper studs to use for the face and door are the commercial type that is used for buildings. Might not be easy for you to find them so I would start looking if I were you. They make some that will have slots and some that don't. The ones that don't have the slots is better for our use if you can find them.

That is about all I can tell you at this point except do not try to use 6" insulation for a 4" wall. Insulation is not made to be used that way. You also want to fine the tadpole gaskets for your door. It makes sealing the door real easy. Mcmaster.com 8815K26 These make the best door locks but can be found cheaper on the net. 5071A52 two is all you will need. If you do find my oven pictures you will see I welded a 5/8" rod with it wrapped in the middle to the two door locks. Really makes the door easy to open and close because both will unlock at the same time.
Attachments
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Door Latch.JPG
Door Latch.JPG (36.64 KiB) Viewed 4834 times
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by duke46 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:19 pm

You have not said if your new oven will have a floor like most do or you are going to build one without a floor.
Without a floor makes rolling in a rack easy but the downside is it takes longer to heat up but once hot then good for the day. Most guys do put down a heavier piece of sheet metal under their oven. The only other downfall and using a propane heater is getting a good seal between door and oven. They do make seals that are replaceable for that use and the same company Mcmaster has them I am almost sure. I had found them for someone else just within the last month but not sure what forum I posted it on. That is what happens when you get to my age. I can remember way back better than what I post now.

If you are going to build one with a normal 2" or 4" floor then do your self a favor and make sure it is well enforced so that sheet metal can be placed and a rack can roll on it easy and be smooth. I would mount some sort of an angle steel so that the inside would be flat and it could be screwed down on the outside edge. You can also buy rubber high temp rollers for that use. Just make sure if you coat on your rack to make sure the wheels are free of powder.

Why I am telling you this is what you are wanting to coat and fit into your oven. An unless you are way over 6' tall and strong as an OX you will have trouble moving them from you coating chamber to your oven. They can be real heavy.

Some guys if lucky and their coating booth is in line with their oven will also use an overhead rack they can coat on and then roll the item into the oven. There again would be getting a good seal when the door is closed. Not sure what would be best for that use?

Okay I am gone for the day.
All I have said is said just for meanness so I don't have to argue with anyone!

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toasted
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by toasted » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:35 pm

Sorry for the late reply duke it was the boss,s birthday so not been around :)
this is the manual http://ink-bird.com/asset/file/ITC-100_ ... 0_6.30.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; it is the itc 100rh
i have just ordered the other one with the ssr as i have just got a domestic oven some one has half converted they have removed the shelf from the middle so ideal for fuel tanks etc
there is a lot of info in those last 2 posts thank you for taking the time to write them out
and that was a clever idea with the filters on the inlet of the heater def something i will do when up and running
i have found a k thermo i can have one from 3"-6" as the inkbird comes with a k am i correct in thinking that is the one i want
also with the oven i am having trouble sourcing the studs in 4" i can get 2" and i think 3" also
i have got 1000 stainles rivets on the way to me and a air rivit gun as i have read some were not to use ally ones
i have also just got 2 steel cabinets 4ft w x 1.5ft d x 7ft h each was thinking of joining together and using for the inside of the oven then going around with studding.insulation .steel
only problem is they are white (would i have to remove the coating)but if fixed together there would not be a problem with sealing the edges and corners just have to sort out door seal
what do you think more work then its worth ?
Thanks duke

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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by duke46 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:07 pm

According to what I see in diagram 6.13 and to the right 7.1 then the PID will do what you need and fire up your heater.

The rest of what you posted and can't find what you need then I can not help you at all as for as the studs you really need?

Screw the rivets but looks like you have jumped the GUN again :( You have to drill holes and then place the damn rivets and best to use and air or electric one for that many. I for sure am not stupid enough to do that but many guys have. Just give me a self tapper small screw and done and that is how my oven was put together. Easy and over with.

Can't advise much on the cabinets you just got??? Have no clue but would need pictures of them and ten may I could advise you? You would still have to line the inside with galvanized panels. The paint on the outside may do fine because with the correct insulation it will not get that hot or at least it shouldn't?
All I have said is said just for meanness so I don't have to argue with anyone!

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