Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

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Khameleon_Koatings
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by Khameleon_Koatings » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:56 am

Crimson wrote:The only problem he could run into is like me that his PID does not like to run the gas. I am still running the old manual control out of a kitchen oven. PID would cause the heater to pulse. PID are really design to control electric elements, as I understand it. You want a on/off control

thats kinda my concern with the pid duke told me about...or i have planned on getting... is that it does pulse... it pulses b/c it send pulses to energize the elements, with the gas, i think it needs to be either on or off. and maybe with like a 20* (10 north/ 10 south) controller set up...meaning when oven hits 400 its off, when it hits 380, it fires back up...with the pid controller like on my elec oven now- it pulsates and i am not so sure how thats going to work with flipping the lp heater on/off like that...(??)

but duke says thats all we would need....so maybe i try it with the one i have before buying another...but i didnt know if there was specific pid for gas, so it doesnt pulsate...but duke says all i would need is like the one from teds... so i am going to go with that for now and see how it goes.
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duke46
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by duke46 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:19 am

I started out with the Auber that worked ok except when I started using my clip it would have to count down or back up when I flipped my switch between the reg TC and the clip. So I went with the Watlow and it would give me a reading ASAP. From what I have been told the one that Ted sells is also quick but have never tried it with my clip so I can't not say for sure but the guys that has bought my clip and put it on a switch and are using the one Ted sells and they said it works fine. There are other China made ones that also work better than an Auber.

Now every now and then even using the Watlow I have had to unit fire up but only the blower an not the flame and then stop??? Can not figure any reason for the cause. It just moved the air around but also blew heat out the vent.

At one time or the other I have seen a PID just come on and then go off even using them in the electric ovens. Some times its just a click and a click??? The gas heaters take a bit longer to fire up sometimes and I guess the just does a quick cycle and just the blower comes on and then the PID will just shut off and then fire back up like it should. The blower always come on first I guess as a safety feature to blow away any fumes or just to make sure it is working before it fires up.

I would have to go back and read what heater you are going to be using. I have forgot.

Now I also have my unit wired diff than most every one else does so that might be the cause of mine doing what it does??? My unit is plugged into the wall and my PID is just a switch in the middle just like an off and on single toggle switch so that might be the reason mine does that? Most guys that use them let the PID control the power to the unit 100%. The PID sends the 120 to the unit. Where mine is wired just like a light switch and the hot side is all that is being used and it is operating where the built in thermostat was on the unit. All the PID does this way is connect the dots so to speak and there is no load on the PID. At the time I did it this way I didn't realize that the PID would handle the heater but it does. Unless you are using one of the real big ones and then you would need a relay just like the ones used in the elect ovens to take the load off. That way the PID just makes the relay work and would have no heavy load. That is the way mine is wired more or less but I am using the PID as the relay and the unit is plugged straight into the wall. Once the PID comes on then it connects just like the org thermostat did.

Now I will tell you one thing about using the torpedo heater and you really have to monitor your parts well. Because it has the built in blower then your oven heats up parts at diff rates depending on where they are placed or how long the parts are. You can use a louver to help direct the heat flow to up or down or back to front but you can't baffle it because it would try to blow back and cut the unit off. I do not have the heat in my over as much under control as I did when it was electric and had a small fan just moving the air. So I had to learn all over again and then make sure I took IR shots and a few more places or if I could use my clip then have more than one in the oven. I have run as many as four clips and then still double checked with the IR depending on where I was able to clip to. I do it the same as it would be used in a line setup.

Now if you was to build a pro gas oven then you should have better and more even heat distribution I would think? But even a home oven has it hot and cold spots and the cook just has to get used to the oven and what it will do and how to use it.

Hope this hlps you guys some??????????

Time for me to go find somthing to do :P
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toasted
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by toasted » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:24 pm

Hey duke ive been floating around this forum for a while now and its time i built myself an oven :D
Now ive decided to go the torpedo heater route as elec cost living in the uk but i am having trouble finding the correct heater to wire in to a pid
This is the 2 i can find at min a clarke devil 1600 and clarke devil 4000 both have auto fire i think but i thought i would ask your advice
The oven dim are going to be 1mx1mx1.6m
Thanks in advance for you help

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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by duke46 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:32 pm

Okay guy give me US measurements. What you posted did not convert?

A lot of area in Canada you can not buy the auto fire ones and guys have to get them from the states??

I would need more info on what you have found

Thanks
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toasted
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by toasted » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:44 pm

thanks for the reply duke :D
the oven is going to be 3ft x 3ft x 6ft (maybe bigger but not by much) internal mes if that helps
the heaters are made by clarke and sold by machine mart in the uk they are the only ones i can find with any ref to an auto ignition on the m,mart website there is a manual with start procedure and specs
really been struggling to find one if i can get this straight i will be building one asap as the one i have now is not big enough for my chopper frames and the local coater is pricey and ruff lol

toasted
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by toasted » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:53 pm

Sorry duke these are the heaters
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke- ... ce-heater/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke- ... -gas-fire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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duke46
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by duke46 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:08 pm

Can't help you much with you being in the UK on the unit. Got to have a link so I can read about it. I kind of think I have looked up some info on that name before but has been years ago.

6' might be a little short depending on the length of the choppers you want to coat? So are long and you need to hang and have floor room. My rack I hang items on is 76" high and the inside of my oven is 79". I took measurements of bikes and bumpers and then came up with that size. But 72" might do fine???

Have you got a way to vent the oven to the outside or really high up?

Okay I will check out the info on the heaters and get back to you. Time to cook supper/dinner.
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toasted
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by toasted » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:24 pm

I have room for 40"x40"x76" internal mes
i hear you with the frames mine are mostly hardtail so longer then standard frames i will have to take some mes from my frame jig and make sure there is plenty of room
yes i do have somewere to vent i can go out and up the side of the work shop i have some twin wall stainless flue pipes that i have from my old log burner
im reading everything i can at min about building an oven inc exhausts and back draft flaps steep learning curve :lol:
Last edited by toasted on Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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duke46
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by duke46 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:27 pm

toasted wrote:Sorry duke these are the heaters
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke- ... ce-heater/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke- ... -gas-fire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The second one will work and all you have to do is straight wire the thermostat shown on page 14 in the manual. Your PID with your oven TC installed will control the unit.
Page 9 tells you it will auto fire and that is what you need. They may make one that puts out less BTU's that does the same? But you need one that will at least put out up to 125,000 BTU's so it will work quick.

The first one will not work.

You also need the taller propane bottles to operate them. Smaller ones can freeze up on you and shut you down.

I can give your more info on how to duct it from heater to oven so you do not burn up the paint on the outside shale of it once you are ready to connect it.

Gine for the evenings
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toasted
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Re: Adding Gas To Your Electric Oven

Post by toasted » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:35 pm

Ok thank you for your help duke i will be in touch shortly :D

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