New propane oven build

J.dd1
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New propane oven build

Post by J.dd1 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:20 pm

Hi everyone, I am about to begin a propane powered oven build that i have been planning for a while now. I want to use an Auber PID to control the power strip that is controlling the heater like everyone else. I am going to be running a “mr. heater 125,000 BTU propane heater”.
1. Now which specific PID should I be running? I believe the Auber SYL-2352 is the correct one I need.
2. I don’t believe i need an SSR for this configuration. I should be able to hook a relay up to turn the power strip on and off when the signal from the PID says so based off the TC.
3. When wiring the PID I’m a little confused. I believe the # 4 and 5 terminals are for my thermocouple. The # 7 and 8 terminals are the output to the relay or maybe the SSR? Then # 9 and 10 is my 110v AC in. I am going to be running a main line disconnect switch here with a fuse block. But I am unsure as to what size fuse I should be running.
4. I also need to vent the oven obviously but the vent will be going through a plywood wall. What is the correct ducting that is insulated enough not to burn my building down?
Thanks in advance. I have done plenty of research but I’m still a little foggy on these parts of the build.

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duke46
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Re: New propane oven build

Post by duke46 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:43 am

I am guessing that you did buy one that was auto fire or continuous ign? Most of the are but some are not!

Auber 2342 is the correct one and your wiring is correct.
You have a + & - on the TC if you wire it wrong then the temp will read backwards and if it does just turn the PID off and swap the wires.

For your pipe through the wall then use a 4" one that is made for a gas water heater and you will be fine. You will find them where the gas water heaters are located. You will have it go out near the bottom rear or side of your oven. You can use normal galvanized pipe to connect to your oven and then it,
I went to a boat place an bought some 3 or 4" fiber glass exhaust wrap and wrapped both the inlet and outlet pipes just for extra protection and to help cut down on the heat. It is sold by the foot.

For the inlet pipe you will need an 8" pipe and if they have it then you can use an 8" reduced to 6" going into your oven. It is best if you can come in from the center bottom back or on the side near the bottom and near the back.
The 8" pipe will fit over the inter heat chamber and this will help keep the outer cover cooler. You can use just one screw to hold it in place if needed.
They also make a collar with little tabs that you bend over and mount inside your oven for a good snug fit and you just use some self tapping screw to hold them in place.

As for as wiring goes then just buy an ext cord that will be long enough to plug into your wall outlet but also long enough to drop down from your PID to the plug on the heater. You can use one of the gray electrical boxes that have 4 screws on the lid for your PID. Just offset it a half inch off the side of your oven wall. Just add two toggle off and on switches to your box. One for cutting your PID on and off and the other one to cut the heater on and off for use when setting the temp on your PID or to cut the heater off when you open the door for an IR reading of your parts. We are talking very low amperage between the PID and the heater so about all you need if you want to fuse the line feeding the PID then maybe a 4 amp should do fine.

If you want an oven light then you will have to add a terminal block to your box so you can add an extra off/on switch to operate your light. If you can find an old light fixture out of a home oven then that would be great and if not and I guess they sill make them you will need an old school white porcelain fixture to mount inside. They will handle the heat really well. You will have to use the oven light blubs because they will also handle the heat. It would be better if you used a higher temp wire feeding the light fixture. You might have to find it at a place that does oven repairs?

You will have to straight wire the built in TC in the heater so the PID will operate it. You will still be able to use the high and low setting. I had to also straight wire the high limit switch in mine because it was so hot one summer and I didn't have enough air flow around the unit and it shut down on me. Most guys do not have that problem.

I also added a cut off valve when the propane line connects to the unit. The valve will have a red or yellow handle and you will need it and an extra fitting to do this. I can cut the gas off there if I need to for any testing or for removing the unit. You will also need what is called a 100 lb or larger tank to operate it. Smaller ones may freeze up on you. They do make some I think that are 40 or larger that I seen at Tractor Supply but you will need at least two so you have a back up tank. I have mine filled by my propane company that takes care of my home tanks but I do check it and if I think I need some I just call them and tell them when they have a driver in my area have him top it off and that way I do not get charged a service call that cost more than the gas does.

Well I may have told you more than you needed but at least you have all the info you need I hope and good luck with your build. :)
All I have said is said just for meanness so I don't have to argue with anyone!

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J.dd1
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Re: New propane oven build

Post by J.dd1 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:53 pm

First of all, Thankyou for that thorough response. You stated that the Inlet should be near the back bottom aswell as the outlet be near the back bottom side of the oven. Does that mean they should be next to each other? Or on opposite facing walls at the same height on the bottom? Next when you said my wiring was correct that meant I did not need an SSR, correct? Thankyou again.

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duke46
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Re: New propane oven build

Post by duke46 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:39 am

An SSR PID is used by some for a normal elect oven but most every one uses the relay type. The relay PID uses 120 in and puts out 120 but an SSR uses 120 in but only puts out 12 volts for feeding a SSR. That is a deep as I care to go on them. The relay PID has it on relay built into it and it will operate the type heater you are going to use but if you ever want to build an electric oven then you would also buy an external relay that would feed the electric elements.

Good question on the inlet and outlets placement. A lot depends on the type of space you have around your oven and then you have to work within your space. Most heaters will be placed about mid way and they will blow the hot air straight across the oven. Just try to place it low. Most guys will leave it alone but I did use a fixed heat register and I could bend the louver how I liked. You need to find one that is SS or chrome if you can? I stripped the paint off mine and then ceramic coated it but not every one wants to deal with ceramic coating but you can buy it in a spray can at Auto Zone and Advance but you would have to cure in in a normal oven before you mounted it in your new one. They will be a lot larger than you need but that is about all you can find. I would not try to use an adjustable one like is used for floors or walls. Just to much heat for them.

You can place your vent on the bottom side as close to the back as you can go and you should be good.

If you do as I suggested and add a gas cut off valve on the input of your heater then it would be really easy to cut off the gas and then have your PID cut on the heater so you could check the amount of air it is pushing out and that would let you know what you might want to do as to directing it some. The key is to have good circulation inside your oven. No one has ever said that these heaters would blow off any powder of any parts. I guess that would depend on how low and how big the part was and how close it might be to the input of the heater?

Are you building an oven with a raised floor or a floorless one?
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J.dd1
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Re: New propane oven build

Post by J.dd1 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:10 pm

Hello again, it will be a raised floor style oven unfortunately. As for the inlet and outlet placement, when you are looking at the door of the oven I plan to put the heater on the left hand side wall in the bottom center. Then the outlet I plan to put on the back side wall on the lower right hand side.

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duke46
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Re: New propane oven build

Post by duke46 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:20 pm

Placement of the heater and outlet duct should work fine I would think.

I just read what you said here at the start of your post and just wanted to make sure we are on the same page :?:
You said " I should be able to hook a relay up to turn the power strip on and off when the signal from the PID says so based off the TC."

There will be no need for a power strip unless you put one in to feed the PID and a oven light. It will not feed the heater in any way shape or form.
The PID has its own built in relay so you do not need an extra one.
All I have said is said just for meanness so I don't have to argue with anyone!

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valeeraa
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Re: New propane oven build

Post by valeeraa » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:25 pm

I have a build just like yours. Propane is probably the best alternative I ever move towards.

I might be able to help you make some purchases also. I purchased the Auber SWA 2441 after going back and forth with a sales rep and offered me that PID controller to work perfectly with the propane heater. As for the heater, I got one used that has 75000-125000BTU with a solenoid valve controller connected to the PID. (Thanks to Mike from BoldCityDesigns to help me along the way). I kinda messed up the access door to the point where it may be leaking air.. I might have to do something about that.. Lol.

@duke46 I have a couple of questions if you're able to answer them..
  • I have my HY band or threshold set at +/-3deg F. My SV=415. So basically it'll kick in at 412 and shut off at 418. Are you running your PID settings in a heating mode where it's just on and off?
  • Is it also normal for the temperatures to continuously drop once it does kick in again? (eg. Heater will kick in at 412, but will drop to roughly 403 until it balances and reaches 418 again.)
Here are a few pics of my build. First time, don't judge. Haha. The wiring isn't completely done yet either, this was just a dry run.

Image

Image

Image

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duke46
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Re: New propane oven build

Post by duke46 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:33 am

Not a bad looking build you got there :D
My PID is set to heat if I remember correctly. I cuts on and off,
Yes it is normal for the temp to go down with this type set up because the fan comes on first and then it fires up so it is pushing cold air in there to start with. Other guys have also said something about the cool down but the heater get the temp back up quick and the part is not cooling down from what I have seen and tested.

I have only been around one commercial gas oven and really not sure how it operated but the heat came from the top as most of them do and when the guy opened the door you could feel the heat blowing down on you and if you looked up you could see the flame. I will have to ask some of the guys that have them how they work and what control setting they have and how they operate.

What/why do I see a flame coming out of your pipe? Did you place the duct the wrong direction or is it not tight enough where the duct join? You always want any pipe to go inside the next pipe so it will flow smoothly and not leak. I can see the picture but I can't see it large enough to see if something is not connected correctly? It looks like you have the first piece of duct over the top of the heat chamber on the heater and that is the way it should be. But there should not be any flame coming out of any joint that I have ever seen?

I guess that little dryer vent is temporary and you will be exhausting to the outside? You can use a vent like that outside but it has to be made out of galvanize metal and not aluminum. Aluminum will not take the heat and even the flap on a galvanized one will just ware out because of the excessive heat. I have a custom made larger one I had to try and repair so I have been there already.

I hope I have answered your questions?
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valeeraa
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Re: New propane oven build

Post by valeeraa » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:19 am

duke46 wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:33 am
Not a bad looking build you got there :D
My PID is set to heat if I remember correctly. I cuts on and off,
Yes it is normal for the temp to go down with this type set up because the fan comes on first and then it fires up so it is pushing cold air in there to start with. Other guys have also said something about the cool down but the heater get the temp back up quick and the part is not cooling down from what I have seen and tested.

I have only been around one commercial gas oven and really not sure how it operated but the heat came from the top as most of them do and when the guy opened the door you could feel the heat blowing down on you and if you looked up you could see the flame. I will have to ask some of the guys that have them how they work and what control setting they have and how they operate.

What/why do I see a flame coming out of your pipe? Did you place the duct the wrong direction or is it not tight enough where the duct join? You always want any pipe to go inside the next pipe so it will flow smoothly and not leak. I can see the picture but I can't see it large enough to see if something is not connected correctly? It looks like you have the first piece of duct over the top of the heat chamber on the heater and that is the way it should be. But there should not be any flame coming out of any joint that I have ever seen?

I guess that little dryer vent is temporary and you will be exhausting to the outside? You can use a vent like that outside but it has to be made out of galvanize metal and not aluminum. Aluminum will not take the heat and even the flap on a galvanized one will just ware out because of the excessive heat. I have a custom made larger one I had to try and repair so I have been there already.

I hope I have answered your questions?
Thanks for the quick reply!

You actually see the flame because the duct isn't flush on the heat chamber of the heater.. I actually tried it flush to the chamber and it made the loudest whirring noise I've ever heard. So I decided to set it back a bit which then just blows the heat through the duct and into the oven. It sounds like a really annoying noise amplified through narrow tunnel.. Lol.

Oh.. You been through the aluminum phase of the venting? I guess I'll switch it out when it craps out on me.. The funds now are tight after the whole build. Do you have a flap on the exhaust and the inlet side? Or just the exhaust side?

Now the moment of truth comes to play if it will actually bake the powder on the part.. I tried heating up a tow hook and took an IR temp gun to it and it only reached as much as ~375deg. :evil:. Trying to figure out what else I might be missing in this puzzle..

Wonder if there's a better way to communicate with you? Email? Text? :roll:

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duke46
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Re: New propane oven build

Post by duke46 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:09 pm

You actually see the flame because the duct isn't flush on the heat chamber of the heater.. I actually tried it flush to the chamber and it made the loudest whirring noise I've ever heard. So I decided to set it back a bit which then just blows the heat through the duct and into the oven. It sounds like a really annoying noise amplified through narrow tunnel.. Lol. I only know of one guy that used a reducer off his heater into his oven and he didn't say if it made a lot of noise or not? He may have just come straight in to his oven? Some guys come straight in and some come in like you and I have. I remember mine making a loud sound when I first started using it but maybe after I wrapped it with the 3" boat fiberglass wrap it tamed it down? Mine still makes a noise but not as bad as it did from the start.That was a long time ago so I do not really remember?

Oh.. You been through the aluminum phase of the venting? I guess I'll switch it out when it craps out on me.. The funds now are tight after the whole build. Do you have a flap on the exhaust and the inlet side? Or just the exhaust side? No flap on input and is not needed and would just burn up. But you need to exhaust through the wall to the outside because it is not safe for the gases to be going out in your space and could make you very sick or even kill you. I have never used an aluminum vent flap because I knew it could not take the heat.

Now the moment of truth comes to play if it will actually bake the powder on the part.. I tried heating up a tow hook and took an IR temp gun to it and it only reached as much as ~375deg. :evil:. Trying to figure out what else I might be missing in this puzzle.. Your placement of your thermocouple make all the difference in the world as for as what your oven temp really is. It is kind of a guessing game for sure. You may have it to low or to high and you never want it setting in a chamber and it needs to be just on the wall like a normal home oven is.

Wonder if there's a better way to communicate with you? Email? Text? :roll: This way is good because other guys can read it and may help them and I do not text.
All I have said is said just for meanness so I don't have to argue with anyone!

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