New guy and equipment questions

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Bearwen
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New guy and equipment questions

Post by Bearwen » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:26 am

Hello All,
Totally new to powder coating infact I don’t even have any equipment yet.
I have a skat blast sandblaster coming and well I don’t know what to do about a powder gun system.
I am wanting to do my own car and truck parts including rims and rearends etc.
My son and I are into building custom cars and we plan to open a shop in the next year or so. The shop is really a place for us to build custom stuff and sell it and do custom projects for customers. I want to do my own powder work and offer powder work to customers but I dont want to be a powder coating shop. For instance if I build a roll cage for a customer I can upgrade them with powder coating and do a few off the street jobs if they come and they are not taking away from other work.
My big question is what gun to get?
I want to be able to do at least 3 layer candies with clear.
Also do I want the pulse wave stuff or not?
I know the EW dual voltage is probably not going to work but may be good to start with and use when only doing 1 or 2 coat simple jobs.
I have seen a couple China knock offs of the cc and pbtp guns with the wave stuff colo was one brand.
Anyways for the ones who have been there done that what do you recommend.
I don’t have a problem spending $1000 or so on a gun.
As stated I do plan to use it to make money with in the future but I am not planning on being a full time powder shop.
I could send it out but I would like to do it in house we will see maybe it sucks and I sub it out who knows.
I do realize there’s a learning curve I plan to spend the next year learning it as I powder coat parts on our current build and so I want something that has the ability to do low volume production work. If I expand to powder coating I would go with a pro gun Gema, Wagner etc
I read a lot of posts and searched the forums but I really didn’t get a solid idea of what to do especially since it’s 2019 and there are a lot of new china and other stuff available now and there were alot of older posts.

Thanks for any help you guys can give.
Berry

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Jay V
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Re: New guy and equipment questions

Post by Jay V » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:22 am

How big of an oven are you planning on?

Stuff like roll cages and rear ends are going to require a big oven, and prepping and coating that stuff is a handful.

I'd recommend starting with a medium sized industrial/commercial convection oven. I have a Blodgett that's about 24 D x 30 W x 18" H. I use it all the time for anything that fits. It's quick and efficient. You don't want to ramp up a big oven for smaller stuff, and you'll use it often even if you have a larger oven. I don't do huge parts, so my 4 x 4 x6' electric commercial convection is fine.

For the big stuff you'll want a real pro gun. I have Wagners, and they are plenty good. Gema is the best IMO, but you can do what you need to without "the best". It's the Wizard - not the wand.

I typically use an EZ-50 for almost anything that will fit in my medium oven (I also have a small convection toaster oven for tiny parts and test panels - you want one of those as well). They are plenty capable once you figure out their limits. Get the latest model that's orange. It's heavier duty and puts out a better cloud than the older models. Never fill it more than 1/2 way, and set the power dial about 1/2 way (dot is at the top) for most parts. You use the level in the cup and the air pressure to control the cloud.

I wouldn't "go big" right off the bat. Get an EZ-50 and a used commercial convection oven and get your feet wet first.

There's plenty to learn, and it's best to keep your screw-ups reasonable at first.

You will most likely want some type of chemical stripper, either for your mistakes or just to strip painted/coated parts. Removing a high quality painted or coated finish by blasting is nearly impossible and can damage the surface. I use B17, but it's nasty and dangerous. Sometimes it's still barely enough.

Bearwen
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My Location: 32257

Re: New guy and equipment questions

Post by Bearwen » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:21 pm

Thanks for the reply.
As for oven I planned to have a couple like you were saying for small and medium stuff and one for bigger stuff.
I’m not sure how big I would go at this point it would all depend on what parts seem to get asked for the most and if it would be cost effective also.
You stated to get the ez-50 I have thought about that one to start with but I noticed that for the same price or a $100 or so more I can get a China made fluid hopper unit that has pulse and adjustable Kv and uA yeah I know it’s china knock off stuff but it would allow me a bit more capability for multi coat and faraday issues and I understand that it may break in a year or so but I should know what I need and what will work for my needs by then. Also spare parts may be an issue but seems there are suppliers of China spare parts also and I am not affraid to tear it apart and fix it
Here are 2 links to the 2 main units I am thinking about besides a ez-50 or ez-100
$400 with a 1 liter hopper ordered extra
This one is basically an upgraded version (has current adjust) of the Nitro Faze easy flow
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Powder-Coating ... 2257!US!-1

$530 ready to go with small 1 liter hopper
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-new-origi ... 3769461039

I have to admit I am kinda leaning towards the $530 one with the presets and pulse as well as adjustable kv and uA it’s a copy of a Colo (another China company) the Colos seamed to be ok especially for someone in my position and it would give me a lot more capability I think than a EZ model.


So anyone have an opinion they would like to share

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Jay V
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Re: New guy and equipment questions

Post by Jay V » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:25 am

For smaller parts a full-size gun with a pump and hose is a pain - I almost never use it.

The EZ50 does the job - I use it everyday. Don't like the design of the EZ100, and you'll never need that many Kv.

The amount of Kv is proportional to the cloud, and you can't get a big enough cloud to need 100 Kv. I run my EZ50 about 1/2 way (25 Kv) almost all the time, and sometimes lower. If you have a good ground there's no need for high Kv, especially on smaller or complex parts. Save the high Kv for large flat parts and big clouds.

I used the EZ yesterday to do a large Harley frame, and it worked well. No need for a big pattern and cloud when doing tubes. The EZ is like a detail gun and can get into areas the large gun can't. Often you need to dial-down the flow and hit tight areas without throwing a huge cloud at the entire part.

The EZ50 may not be your only gun, but it should be the first IMO.

Bearwen
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Re: New guy and equipment questions

Post by Bearwen » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:50 pm

Ok you almost have me convinced to buy the EZ-50.
The big seller would be is the EZ-50 a good gun to use to do car rims? I can see customers asking for that if I have powder coating available.
Also with the car rims could I do 3 coats such as a silver base followed by a candy of some color followed by a clear coat?
If it can do that obviously with practice and learning curve then I will pick up the EZ-50 tomorrow.

Just curious but how many coats have you been able to get the EZ-50 to do and on faraday areas like rims or the inside of a sheetmetal box ( like a center console or glove box )?

Oh almost forgot what about powder bursts is that an issue with the EZ-50 since it’s a cup gun or is there a mod to make it a fluid hopper cup just curious.
Obviously I have no experience but I want to learn at the same time I don’t want to waste time or money on something that I will out grow in 6 months.
Thanks again for the replies.

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Jay V
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Re: New guy and equipment questions

Post by Jay V » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:31 pm

Bearwen wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:50 pm
Ok you almost have me convinced to buy the EZ-50.
The big seller would be is the EZ-50 a good gun to use to do car rims? I can see customers asking for that if I have powder coating available.
Also with the car rims could I do 3 coats such as a silver base followed by a candy of some color followed by a clear coat?
If it can do that obviously with practice and learning curve then I will pick up the EZ-50 tomorrow.

Just curious but how many coats have you been able to get the EZ-50 to do and on faraday areas like rims or the inside of a sheetmetal box ( like a center console or glove box )?

Oh almost forgot what about powder bursts is that an issue with the EZ-50 since it’s a cup gun or is there a mod to make it a fluid hopper cup just curious.
Obviously I have no experience but I want to learn at the same time I don’t want to waste time or money on something that I will out grow in 6 months.
Thanks again for the replies.
I use the EZ as a detail gun to hit tight areas on wheels, but do not use it for the entire wheel. I wouldn't suggest diving into wheels until you have a bunch of small stuff successfully under your belt. You need to have a good way to strip wheels if you decide to coat them. Some will not strip without hours in the strongest stripper available - so be careful what you start on.

I can easily do multiple coats with the EZ - with the right ground on the part. Grounding off of a bolt is always way better than through a hole when doing multiple coats. I rarely do candy/transparent colors on complicated pieces, and don't apply clear over candy/transparents (they are tinted clears).

Don't fill the cup over 1/2 and the chances of burps are a lot less. Different powders require different levels of powder and air pressure. It's all a balance - powder type/powder amount/air pressure.

I've been coating professionally full-time for 7 years and have had multiple EZ50s. I still use it (newer orange model) daily, so I don't think you'll outgrow it.

Bearwen
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Re: New guy and equipment questions

Post by Bearwen » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:35 pm

Jay,
Thanks for all the replies and not just blowing me off the minute I questioned your first reply.
You made me do a lot more research on the EZ50 and I am sold I will be purchasing one in the next few days.
I have lots of car parts that I need to get rid of that are old and being replaced with modern pieces so my son and I plan to strip and blast then powder coat them and then try to sell them to get rid of them and maybe help someone out that needs hard to get original replacement parts. Worse case we ruin them and toss them in the scrap bin and chalk them up to learning curve.
Either way thanks again for the push.
Berry

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Jay V
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Re: New guy and equipment questions

Post by Jay V » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:45 am

You bet. Glad to help.

I (we) do appreciate that you come back and reply to your original post. It's really frustrating when someone posts a question and doesn't ever follow-up - never to be heard from again...

It takes some trial and error to get everything working properly. Start with really small stuff that can be stripped or discarded. That will help you figure out what you need to do as the next step.

Do some research on how to get a solid ground to your part. Nothing will work properly if you don't have a solid ground. I use an Ohm meter to check conductivity from the part to the booth and the booth to the ground if I'm not sure. It should pretty much read "0".

Buy some steel test ("Q") panels and make sure you get a good one before shooting a part. I like to start from the bottom and shoot one pass that looks to cover the panel, then do another pass, stopping 1/2 way up, then a small close/heavy shot at the very bottom. What I'm looking for is how the powder flows - does it need to be light (covered), medium (covered +1), or heavy (covered +2), and what will it do if it's too heavy and back ionized? Will it get wavy and pitted or will it flow out fine? Things you want to know before you shoot a part with it. Typically it's "Covered +1" (I mark "C+1" on the bag if it's the best) but not always. Wrinkles and texture sometimes get really ugly when over-applied. You want to know that before coating a part.

The EZ will serve you well. Not capable of everything, but very capable once you get the hang of it. Buy 2 or 3 extra cups. Keep the cup between 1/4 and 1/2 full and use the air to regulate flow. Don't use too much air. The air should just be a whisper and the cloud soft. Start low and add air if the cloud isn't big enough or the powder is dense.

Let us know how it's going when you get rolling.


Jay

Bearwen
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Re: New guy and equipment questions

Post by Bearwen » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:01 pm

Jay,
More useful info thanks.
I know the ground thing read lots of stuff about grounds lol.
I will come back and reply to this message as a follow up once I have used the EZ50 and done some coating.
It will probably be after Christmas as I have a few things to get built setup adjusted and purchased to get all this powder coating stuff going.
Hoping to have everything ready so when I take some time off at Christmas I can get some practice.

Thanks again for helping out a newbie and not just replying with buy a pro gun.

WiseAssYT
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Re: New guy and equipment questions

Post by WiseAssYT » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:40 pm

Could always buy a colo model , well worth the money.

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